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Thursday, December 7, 2023

Decemystery (2023) 7: VCR Wife


Hello there! Welcome back to my humble little blog. If you were around here an hour ago, perhaps you read about something (or rather someone) known as “The Sad Man.” If you didn’t, then don’t worry, that isn’t necessary. The only thing that is necessary is that today’s daily dose of mysteriousness is centered on two strange entries I found on the Conspiracy Iceberg. Both stories have little to nothing available on them, so I figured that it could be fun to take a gander at them both. After all, not every write-up needs to be about something noteworthy. Sometimes, it’s fun to kick back and look over an odd thing from the Internet.

So what do we have now? Well, this story is known as VCR Wife. When I first saw this story back in 2021, I was honestly enraptured by it in a weird way. There was something about the name that really stuck with me, and ever since then, I’ve wanted to dedicate a full write-up to it. In fact, it was on the schedule for Decemystery 2022, but as you can tell, that never materialized. It’s just like the planned Terminator trilogies from the last 15 years!

Anyway, enough with the digressions. Let us take a look at this story; it’s a story of romance and over 1,000 VHS tapes. Oh, baby, I can feel the nostalgia coursing through my veins! I really don’t like it.

‘Til Death Do Us Part

If you’ve read my conspiracy Megalist from 2021, then thank you! Also, you may remember this story—though I won’t fault you if you don’t. It isn’t exactly one where you can go chasing leads left and right. I said as much in the summary over two years ago, and sadly, I echo that fact now. In spite of that, my strange fixation with this story dictates that I write about this.

If you head on over to 4plebs and search for posts that contain “VCR Wife,” you won’t find much. The little that you will find, though, is remarkably consistent. According to posters, 1,078 unmarked VHS tapes were discovered in the attic of a house located near Lake Michigan. Exactly where near Lake Michigan, I sadly don’t know. Four states border it: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin. As such, I won’t be assuming where this house was located. Also, I have no idea why the number is so specific. If it’s significant in numerology, then please tell me.

Anyway, now that I’m done not knowing things, let’s continue. These tapes had some interesting content on them. They were recordings (presumably home movies) showcasing the relationship between a woman named Claire and her husband (though one 4chan poster said it was her boyfriend; for consistency, I will be saying the man was Claire’s husband). That, on its own, is really nothing of note, though there are a few extremely odd details—not the least of which being that they apparently thought their relationship was so amazing that they had to record it across over a thousand video tapes.

For starters, Claire’s husband is never seen, nor is he ever named. It isn’t stated if he ever spoke or not, but I’d like to imagine he didn’t and that he was Gordon Freeman. Anyway, the next odd thing is that Claire never acknowledges that she’s being videotaped—despite the footage being in first-person. This led some to speculate that her husband was recording her via his eye (or eyes). I’d rather think that her husband has a camera for a head, though.

To round this story off, people think that these VHS tapes have the “animus” of the husband infused within them. In other words, the VHS tapes basically have the husband’s “inner self” infused into them, so his entire life is scattered across 1,078 VHS tapes… I think. Honestly, I’m taking a shot in the dark with that, so I could be entirely wrong. If I am, let me know.

That, as far as I’m aware, is all there is to this story—sort of. There are a few variations to the story, which we’ll get into in a moment. But for the time being, that’s all there is. So, for now, I want to take a moment to revisit what I thought when I first heard this story back in 2021.

I remember when I first came across this story, I really wanted to find out more about it. In fact, I was all but ready to write about it immediately after I finished the second Megalist. However, there was one little problem.

I couldn’t find anything about it.

Now, granted, you knew that already since I said it up above. Though I genuinely tried all I could to find something about this story. I used Google. I used Bing. That’s all I tried. Yeah, I really pulled out all the stops when trying to find information on this, but you likely know very well that I’m in a league of my own when it comes to being atrocious at research.

Still, despite not being able to find anything on this story, I had to wonder if it was based on a creepypasta or perhaps the synopsis of a short film. It was vague enough that it struck me as being plausible. However, I couldn’t find a creepypasta that matched this story well enough, and while I love movies, I’m not into short films. Also, I don’t know of a short film (let alone a film) about something like this.

With that said, let’s circle back to where we left off a few paragraphs ago. For this write-up, I tried once again to find something, and somehow, in some absurd way, I found a few variations to the story that I didn’t mention in the Megalist summary. I think I left them out on purpose for simplicity’s sake, and if that’s the case, I’m not very happy I did. Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20. However, I feel these variations are pretty significant and should have been mentioned—even if briefly.

The first is more of an extension of the regular story that I do not recall. Maybe I just forgot it, but I never recall seeing it. It states that when one of the VHS tapes is played, the couple relive the memories in real-time. This is according to something called “Pataphysical Models.” I have absolutely no idea what these are, but they’re apparently pseudoscientific and are a league above metaphysics. I guess. Truth be told, once you include the word “physics” into anything, you immediately lose me.

I feel it’s also worth mentioning that one of the posts that adds this detail is from the same poster who discussed how “0 entities” were allowed through into our world during that TED Talk incident. If you don’t know who I’m talking about, click here and scroll down. Unless I forget to add the hyperlink in the future because I’m writing this in February. If I have forgotten to add it, feel free to leave a comment telling me I did—and that I’m a forgetful putz. If I didn’t forget, you’ll find my tangent on this enigmatic fellow there. Anyway, this time around, the only weird thing the fellow had to say was this:

X..vXX..:: error see entry (Modem Lambda)

Okay, buddy.

Anyway, I don’t think it’s worth lingering on this for too long. It went nowhere last time, and it won’t go anywhere this time either. So, let’s instead move on to the next variation, which is the most significant—and originates from two 4chan threads (which you can read here and here).

That variation—which has taken me three months to get to due to brain fog (please shoot me, I hate this so much)—is that the tapes detail the relationship of a nameless woman and her husband, same as the original story (with the husband and wife being filmed), except that they date back to the year 1000. My history isn’t as good as it used to be, so I don’t know what life was like back then, but I like to imagine there were knights, castles, and other things you’d see in an Elder Scrolls game.

Initially, that was all I intended to put. I can’t find any additional details on this variation. However, after I had written this portion and was taking a break, I suddenly remembered something. It was another entry from the Conspiracy Iceberg that is a lot like this variation: Medieval Found Footage. Although I remembered it, I had no idea what the specifics were, so I went back to the first conspiracy Megalist I wrote to refresh my memory. Unfortunately, it didn’t line up with today’s story. In spite of that, I will still copy and paste what I wrote in that Megalist here so you guys judge for yourselves if maybe it could work:

Supposedly, there were castle ruins discovered in the 1960s. In it, there was a smooth, stone tablet that was activated by blood. When fed this blood, the tablet projected images; video footage of a witch that was hunted, tried, and subsequently executed. Upon her death, the castle collapsed and the feed was killed. Due to this find, the tablet was stolen by the government and studied. After this, rumors began to spread that it was being withheld due to it proving the existence of magic.

Again, I thought it was at least worth mentioning. With that said, though, let’s move on.

The next thing I found is one that I honestly considered excluding entirely. It’s absolutely nothing like the others, but I want to mention it because I found it kind of interesting. On October 26, 2015, a user on 4chan posted a thread entitled Google Trends proves the Mandela Effect is real. If you aren’t familiar with the Mandela Effect, it’s the idea that something happened or was a certain way when, in reality, it wasn’t. Its name is derived from how people thought Nelson Mandela died in the 2000s when, in fact, he died in 2013. If you want to know more, there are countless articles and videos on it. I, personally, don’t feel like lingering on it for too long as I’m not fond of the concept whatsoever. In spite of that, I will still talk about the 4chan post.

Anywhoozle, on this specific thread, the original poster stated that they decided to comb through search traffic using Google Trends. According to them, the results they found were proof that reality had “somehow been tampered with.” After briefly explaining how the Mandela Effect got popular with the Berenstain/Berenstein Bears controversy, the poster brought up the 1989 sports film Field of Dreams starring Kevin Costner. I’ve never seen it, but it’s apparently really good and quite famous. In the film, though, there is a line that goes as follows:

If you build it, he will come.

This line has, apparently, been misremembered a great deal, as many believe it to be:

If you build it, they will come.

The poster backs this up with some data from Google Trends, which you can view here. If you don’t feel like it, it shows that far more people looked up “If you build it, they will come” rather than the actual line, which only began to get search hits starting around the start of 2011. The poster then goes on to give similar Google Trends results for “Mirror mirror on the wall” versus “Magic mirror on the wall,” which you can view here.

The reason I bring this up is because there’s a very interesting post in the thread that popped up during my search for “VCR Wife” on 4plebs. Yeah, it doesn’t really have anything to do with the story itself, but I felt it should be mentioned because, well, it came up during my research. Also, I wanted to pad out my word count. Okay, not really, I thought it was interesting-ish.

Now that I’m done justifying myself in the worst way possible let’s get to the meat of this part. On this post, a user posted the following message:

/x/ I'm gonna ask my wife if she had the VHS of this movie, her parents kept all that stuff and I may be able to dig it out and a VCR to confirm.

You see, the math here is simple: this fellow asked their wife if she had a VHS of Field of Dreams. He then went to find a VCR. Wife + VCR = Wife VCR. Or, if you reverse it: VCR Wife. The math is irrefutable, and I rest my case. Damn, I’d make a great lawyer. I bet I’d be the best lawyer since Robert Kardashian.

Anyway, roughly 13 minutes after their first post, the user replied to themselves with this:

Okay well she just got home from work and I asked her what she remembers. She assured me that it is indeed "If you build it, he will come". The voice is referring to his father, or that's what Kevin Costner thought. The voice was actually referring to Shoeless Joe Jackson, who did show up.

I believe her. Her parents are hardcore jesus lovers and they just sat around watching wholesome family films for much of her childhood, she has seen it many times.

As far as I can tell, the user didn’t post after this (though it’s possible that I simply didn’t see a post from them). There’s no word on if they found a VCR, but they did find their wife, which is good. So, in short, the version of events involving a VCR and a wife appears to be true. However, the VCR appears to be MIA. I hope that wherever it is, the VCR is okay.

Now, onto the final variation that I found—and easily the strangest. In fact, I think it could make for its own write-up—even if it’d probably be on the shorter side. Like everything else I’ve found for this story, this comes to us from 4chan. On April 24, 2021, a thread was posted on /x/ with the name “Story about a creepy woman caught on videotape.” If I’m to be honest, that alone would catch my eye and instantly intrigue me, but I digress. Here’s the original post in its entirety:

I remember hearing about this a while ago, year or two maybe, somewhere on the Internet. Possibly in a YouTube video. Might have some details wrong, so bear with me.

Couple comes home, finds a tape somewhere. Basement, attic maybe. Location doesn't really matter. What does matter is that on this VHS tape is a woman who sits and stares into the camera. Just sits and states. I remember vividly that the video I heard this story about on had proof that this tape actually existed, that footage from the tape is shown, and that the woman is there, smiling into the camera. See pic for rough approximation.

It gets even weirder. Woman is sitting in their house, right where they're sitting. Probably isn't a previous tenant, tape doesn't look very old and they've owned the house for years. At the end of the tape, she says something very quietly into the camera, then gets up and walks out of frame.

That's all I know. Please help me. She haunts me at night.

I debated on whether or not I should go into this story in more detail and attempt to do a bit of detective work, but I ultimately decided against it. The reason is that when I look back on the constant derailing that the TED Talk write-up went through, the more I was dissatisfied with it. I felt the pacing was all over the place, so for now, I leave you with the thread. Click here to read it in its entirety if you so wish. Perhaps in the future, I’ll write about this story in more detail (or perhaps before this even goes up; who knows). For now, though, I want to make a note of one reply to this thread.

Halfway down the thread, a user replied simply with:

Sounds similar the VCR Wife

Sadly, no one replied to this user, though it did pique my interest as it does sound a fair bit like the original story. It also reminds me a bit of the story of Rose Eater that I wrote about a couple of years ago—albeit mostly because it’s a weird video that was mentioned on 4chan. Don’t judge me; I connect things that have no business being connected. On a more serious note, there are, of course, a fair number of differences between this supposed video and VCR Wife, but I nonetheless felt it was worth bringing up since it does sound at least somewhat like the original story.

Nonetheless, the user’s claim that it sounds similar isn’t entirely far-fetched (in my eyes, at least). The original poster says that they saw the video at some point between 2018 and 2019. They also say they believe they saw it on a list channel. For whatever reason, the more I think about the video described by the original poster, the more I think about this weird video I saw in a Chills video of a girl walking (or crawling, I can’t remember) toward a camera before taking off a mask. Then it repeats, and she takes off another mask. It’s really spooky.

I digress, though. I merely wanted to make a note of this—like a lot of miscellaneous findings for this story. I would go into more detail, but like I said above, I don’t want to linger on this for too long because I feel that it’ll drag this out for far longer than it needs to be (and will read more like two write-ups merged into one).

So with that, the story of VCR Wife comes to a close. That is, as far as I can tell, all there is to this strange little tale. Well, little in the sense that at its core, it’s just something that I saw mentioned on 4chan years ago. I just happened to drag it out for thousands of words when I could have probably condensed it into only a few hundred. Anyway, there are some theories for us to discuss—and they’re mostly related to what we’ve already talked about. So, let’s dive into them!


1. It’s real, and there is/was a collection of 1,078 VHS Tapes centered on the life and times of some random couple

Reading like the synopsis to a Paranormal Activity film, our first theory (and one of the first ones I’ve written about in months at the time of me typing this) is that this was all true. Thinking about it, I’m almost certain that this theory is a lot more plausible than it sounds. People these days record themselves so much that I honestly wonder how many self-made narcissists there are. Good God, I sound like a grumpy old man.

Anyway, let’s get on track. The idea here is, well, it’s all true. Somewhere near Lake Michigan, in a nondescript house in one of the four states that border the Great Lake, there were 1,078 tapes found in an attic.

To throw away the silliness and to let me—as in the actual, serious me—take over for a moment, I genuinely don’t think this theory is that wild. I recall this story of a woman named Marion Stokes, who recorded everything on TV from 1979 until her death in 2012. In total, she had recorded a staggering 70,000 VHS tapes worth of broadcasts. So, to me, in theory, the idea of some random couple recording their life isn’t totally crazy.

That is if we’re to look at this from the most down-to-earth angle. Given this theory’s “lore” (for lack of a better word) states that Claire never acknowledges that she’s being recorded, and we supposedly never hear her husband’s name, I feel that this isn’t a case of “a couple decided to record everything because reasons.” I also find it very hard to imagine that someone could go so long without ever using their significant other’s name. Though I’m sure that there is someone out there who has done that.

Anyway, with all of that out of the way, I could stay here and poke some holes in this theory, but I’ll wait to do that for my own personal take. For now, let’s move on to the one little variation to this theory.

1b. It also dates back to the year 1000

Introducing the new and improved VHS tape: now capable of recording up to an entire year’s worth of material! 525,600 minutes of memories are now available to rewatch if you wish to experience the best and worst of times! Thank you, Rent, for teaching me how many minutes are in a year.

Given this story most certainly was not first brought up in the year 2078, I doubt that each tape found covered an entire year of this supposed couple’s life. However, for the sake of argument, we’ll just assume that some of these tapes ran out of memory or were damaged in some way, shape, or form, and they had to use another one… or something.

The point is that this theory is more or less the same as the one above but instead documents the couple throughout the ages—literally. Whether you want to apply the concept of “Medieval Found Footage” to this theory is up to you. Personally, I won’t since this reads a lot more like The Truman Show: Husband & Wife Edition. That’s really all I can say about this without going on tangents about nothing, so let’s move on.

2. Mandela Effect - My Wife Has a VHS Copy of Field of Dreams Edition

Generally, when it comes to the theories section, I prefer to be as unbiased as humanly possible. However, in this case, I have to be brutally honest: I feel this is a major stretch. Now, granted, there aren’t exactly “theories” to go off of since I couldn’t find any article on this topic, but I digress. The idea that this whole story stems from a post from a user whose wife has a VHS copy of Field of Dreams is, to me, extremely silly. Nonetheless, I felt it was necessary to include it here since it was mentioned earlier.

3. It was made up for a Conspiracy Iceberg

Y’know, I actually don’t know if I should capitalize the C in “conspiracy” and I in “iceberg” when referring to these things. Can someone who’s more well-versed in writing tell me if I should? Until I learn otherwise, I’m gonna keep doing it. Old habits die hard, and all that jazz.

Anyway, I’ve had this theory be a part of a fair number of write-ups in the past. As such, there isn’t exactly a whole lot to say here that hasn’t been said before. However, on the off chance that there’s someone who hasn’t read something from yours truly, I will try my best to very briefly explain what this theory is about. For everyone else, you skip my inane rambling.

Odds are, if you’re reading this, you already know what a Conspiracy Iceberg is. If not, it’s an iceberg chart that just lists conspiracy theories from the most well-known to stuff that’s almost certainly made up. That’s how those charts work; go look them up on YouTube to see some examples. Anyway, Conspiracy Icebergs are a dime a dozen. There are way more than there should be out there.

There are a plethora of iceberg charts that have made up entries, and this theory simply posits that the grand old tale of VCR Wife was made up for it. Who made it up? Odds are, whoever made the chart that first included it did so. The lore behind it was then made up by a person on an image board (probably 4chan, but it’s possible that another website got to it first) or a web forum.

So, in short, the whole thing is fake, and I just spent thousands of words talking about something that was fabricated. Is it wrong if I don’t want it to be any other way?

4. It’s related to that weird video

Coming soon to home video: a creepy video.

This theory is related to that weird video that we covered at the end of the main story, and in all honesty, I feel like I’ll have somehow, in some way, covered it before this even goes up. If I haven’t, then it’s because I forgot about it, or I simply deemed it to be nothing worthwhile. I dunno, we’ll see.

I don’t really know what to think of this theory. All there is to it is that one comment, but I would be lying if I said I didn’t see the similarities between the two. Like they’re a bit flimsy, they kind of “feel there.” I guess it’s more up to you to decide since I don’t want to give my personal take here.

5. It’s something else entirely

I’ve actually forgotten what I had in mind for this theory… shoot.

So, funny story: I started this write-up in February of this year (2023) and it’s now May. Brain fog and all that, y’know? Well, I didn’t make a note of what this theory was to be about, and I’ve forgotten what exactly “something else” is (or was, I guess). So, I’ve got no idea what I intended it to be about. Lucky for me, my mind is nothing if not great at making things up, so I will just guess what past me had in mind.

Now, if I know myself well enough (and I like to think I do), I’d hazard a guess and say that I was gonna say that perhaps it was about some sort of diabolical killer. Or perhaps an ARG; likely an ARG—or Alternate Reality Game if you’re unfamiliar with them. I don’t like them, but lots of people do. Anyway, ARGs are usually a safe bet when it comes to something weird you find on the Internet. So I feel like past me likely meant that. I’m not sure where else to go for this, so let’s just move on before this turns into “Vertigo’s Stream of Consciousness: A Life Story.”

6. It’s the VHS collection of the people stuck in the Michigan Blue Hell

This is all they can watch. Poor souls. Also, I really need to write about that. I’ve had it on my to-do list since 2019. Maybe next year.

My Take

Honestly, I feel it’s more than plausible that there is a couple out there that has recorded their life across a plethora of VHS tapes (or whatever the heck one would use nowadays; I’m clueless as heck about what you’d use nowadays). Given Marion Stokes recorded decades worth of television broadcasts, I don’t really see why it isn’t plausible/possible that a couple would do it for their life. Granted, I doubt it’d be decades of their life, but I could see them doing it for a period of months or perhaps even a year. Though, hey, that’s just me.

This story, however, doesn’t appear to imply that that’s the case. Rather, it seems more like a really bizarre voyeuristic scenario—almost akin to something like The Truman Show. I guess I haven’t seen that movie. I hear it’s great, though. I digress however; the story is, to me, a lot more bizarre. This makes it a lot harder for me to buy into, especially when you add on the other strange layers that various Anons added.

The idea that these tapes stretch back to the year 1000 is absurd to me. Granted, I feel I don’t need to say that, but I’m usually someone who’s willing to try his absolute best to suspend his disbelief to buy into some wild stuff. That, however, is a few Golden Gate Bridges too far for me. However, I’d love for it to be real so I could see how their dialect would change throughout the ages (and how they’d explain to the locals their ability to live for a thousand flipping years). Also, I’d especially love to see how they got from wherever they were born and raised to wherever near Lake Michigan they settled down.

As a brief digression: now that I’ve actually typed that, I realize there are a plethora of questions that really aren’t answered with that theory. I know, it’s almost certainly made up (I feel the need to just leave a sliver of a possibility for it to be real—as absurd as that sounds), but things like that make me nitpick. Sue me.

Anyway, moving on, the Mandela Effect theory I brought up is one that I feel the need to brush aside. Heck, I barely even feel it’s a theory. It was something that I simply found when combing through 4plebs and wanted to bring up, but it did involve a VCR, and it also involved a wife. Therefore, I believe it fits into a story called “VCR Wife.” Though, as a little fun side note, I actually asked my mother if she knew about Field of Dreams, and she misquoted the line that was brought up in the 4chan post. It got a little chuckle out of me.

As for that weird video I briefly discussed, I must admit that I am very curious to look into it. The more that I type about it, the more I kind of want to dig around for information on it. But at the same time, I don’t really feel like it. Ah, I love laziness. Anyway, I personally don’t think that has anything to do with VCR Wife. There are some similarities in my extremely casual eye, though.

Moving on, allow me to digress once more. Given I can’t remember what past me had in mind, for it is “something else entirely,” I will take this brief moment to say: past me, you are an idiot for not making notes. Seriously, start doing that. If you happen to read this over, let this be a reminder that notes are important. Stop assuming your memory will not fail you, especially when you believe the Mandela Effect is a product of memory being imperfect and you’ve been dealing with brain fog for over a year now. 

Now, let’s finally get onto what I think the truth behind VCR Wife is. Personally, I think this was made up for the Conspiracy Iceberg. Just like the Sad Man, the lack of anything out there about this story leads me to that conclusion. That said, I have no idea exactly where it was first mentioned—and I don’t know who created it.

My best guess is that it was either added by whoever made the first iceberg chart that features it, and a user on 4chan made up the “lore” behind it. I’ve said this in the past, but I’ve partaken in threads on /x/ that have done this. I recall having made up a few conspiracies of my own and had Anons explain what they’d be about. It was a great deal of fun, and I kind of wish I’d made up more since I’d love to see what people could conjure up in their minds. Alas, I’m but a simple, reclusive man who likes NASCAR way too much.

It’s also possible that the story for this was originally done on another forum/image board and has its roots elsewhere, and I simply didn’t look there. If that’s the case, then feel free to comment and tell me, and I’ll try to do better in the future. Not that I feel that will amount to much since I consider my research and detective skills to be the bottom of the barrel. As is, however, I don’t think there’s any truth behind this story. Even with the little spiel, I went on in the first theory.


As stated earlier, I started this write-up back in February, and I’ve only now completed it in May. No, it didn’t take that long to research: brain fog is just a pain in the butt. Seriously, it’s one of the worst things in the world. Going through a breakup wasn’t this bad. Heck, losing my dog wasn’t this bad. Dealing with this has been a nightmare for me, and more than once, I’ve thought about flat-out giving up on writing because I didn’t think I’d ever be able to find my groove. One of the very few things that has kept me going are the encouraging words of my close friends, so if they happen to read this, I cannot thank any of you enough. You’re some of the brightest lights in my life.

With all of that said, to see this completed is something that fills me with joy. While this story is nothing grand and fantastical like a great many conspiracy theories out there, it’s one that has had a special place in my heart for a while now. Something about it really drew me in, and as such, I’m personally extremely happy to have finally covered—and finished—it.

On one final note, I would (as is the norm) love to hear your thoughts on it. So, if you wish to, leave a comment on what you think the truth behind VCR Wife is. Now, as a little reminder to myself from May 2nd: please don’t stop writing and succumb to your crippling brain fog once again. That wouldn’t be very fun. Seriously, you started this write-up on February 5th. Stop losing your groove, dipstick! Oh well, my rambling to myself aside, I bid you all adieu; stay happy, stay healthy, and thank you for reading!


  1. You know, you mentioned the possibility of it being based on a creepypasta and was reminded of the Cameraheads creepypasta that was considered lost for a while. Something there maybe? Probably not though lmao

    1. Okay so I actually looked at the Cameraheads page on the Lost Media Wiki after this and this sentence stuck out to me: "...with 'cursed' images and videos from the MiniDV tape (claimed to be memories of what the Camerahead itself had seen)"
      Which was just kind of interesting to me. It's probably a coincidence, but possibly an explanation for where this story came from.

    2. I'm quite late on replying to this, but I dunno if this has anything to do with Cameraheads. I thought about that when I first saw your comment, but I think this is an entirely separate beast. Though the part about the memories being recorded is certainly an interesting coincidence.